Poll: Most annoying faction ( your opinion ) ?
Communist
Militarist
Loyalist
Religious
Capitalist
Environmentalist
Nationalist
Intellectuals
[Show Results]
 
 
Most annoying faction
#91
(01-06-2011, 11:25 PM)Tropije Wrote: if you like to polute, the eco's are by far the most annoying.. figured this out recently.. i guess now i dont see the religious as bad, all though they are just that,, annoying.,. the others are down right destructive. Tongue

intelcutuals also have a nasty trick up their sleves. I didnt have an election for a bunch of years, and was just trying to raise my score as high as possible. near the end of my campian, I got a school protest. noone would graduate till i rasied intelectual.. it was a really interesting wrench to throw at me. Lucky for me i was able to over come it fairly quick. I had to build a radio-free tropico staion, and set my TV to the liberty setting, and i did a couple other things.. i forget what. But it worked.

The problem is that if you want to have any kind of advanced economy with factories, the environmentalists will at some point start pouring in. Due to the current nature of how garbage dumps function, I wouldn't say they are that easy to please either. We still lack way too many green options for much of the industry. While AP solved quite a few issues with the power plant and the environmentalists become happier if you place a lot of trees and parks within the city to up the pollution score a bit, late game I find them excruciatingly hard to please. At some point I just outlaw them because having my factories shut down due to eco-protests is mighty annoying.

The only kind of economy you can actually have that environmentalists don't bother about is tourism, which is completely contradictive because tourism is as bad as other types of economies. I mean, airports and airplanes, poor water standards because all water goes to pools and isn't sanitizied properly after, high water usage in general (I think it was some Mediterranean island that suffered from lack of water because so much was spent on tourism) and the destruction of the local environment to favor it as tourist sites such as beaches to name just a few examples why tourism is not good to the environment.
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#92
Communist:
not that hard to please, just treat your workers well
Militarist:
have a good military-not hard
Religious:
semi-hard to please on some of my games, but very content in others
Capitalist:
create a safe environment for people to make money-not hard
Environmentalist:
largely irrelevant
Nationalist:
don't let too many immigrants in.
Intellectuals:
have free, fair elections, build education buildings.
Loyalist:
a nightmare, constantly demanding you to spend money on worthless childhood museums. If they are real loyalists they'd always vote for you and never rebel, and approve of everything you do.
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#93
I don't understand how you can have such issues with the loyalists.
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#94
They are loyalists- when you do things they like Tongue
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#95
I think It was no necessary to add Loyalist faction in expansion.
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#96
I find the intellectuals really annoying. Sure, they can't mess you up like the Militarists or anything but during all my games they just moan incessantly. Not to mention, of course, Betty Boom thinks she's one.
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#97
She should shut up. I wonder if she is aware that shes talking crap all the time.
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#98
I turned off the radio because she was driving me nuts. Juanito is also bad but not as bad because he doesn't talk so much crap as she does, although I admit that some of her comments are funny... the first time you hear them anyway. Especially the one where she demands that El Presidente should buy wind turbines that rotate against the wind.
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#99
I shoot them at the end of sandbox game - yes I played for ( in-game ) 50 years. I wanted to hear all of her stupid comments. But she doesn't have to complain every time I construct a new building.
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(18-06-2011, 11:38 AM)Che Guevara Wrote: I shoot them at the end of sandbox game - yes I played for ( in-game ) 50 years. I wanted to hear all of her stupid comments. But she doesn't have to complain every time I construct a new building.

If they don't make a 'Shoot Betty' edict in Tropico4, there WILL be worldwide public protests...
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(28-06-2011, 03:26 PM)Mzrokks Wrote:
(18-06-2011, 11:38 AM)Che Guevara Wrote: I shoot them at the end of sandbox game - yes I played for ( in-game ) 50 years. I wanted to hear all of her stupid comments. But she doesn't have to complain every time I construct a new building.

If they don't make a 'Shoot Betty' edict in Tropico4, there WILL be worldwide public protests...

I think she won't appear in T4 well they told Juanito won't. Go get some champagne now.
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(20-05-2011, 04:41 PM)Feeblezak Wrote: Religious, first thing i do on sandbox is order the deaths of every religious supporter and ban the faction. Im not wasting money on pointless things like churches.

My dear comrade, that's no way to do things!
Tropico is not meant to reflect your real-life beliefs...
If it did then a lot of Tropico 3 players would be messed up psychopaths who stick pictures of Pol Pot on their bedroom wall...
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(28-06-2011, 05:55 PM)Mzrokks Wrote: ... Tropico is not meant to reflect your real-life beliefs -- If it did then a lot of Tropico 3 players would be messed up psychopaths who stick pictures of Pol Pot on their bedroom wall.

And they are not ??

What too many gameplayers do is use the games to sublimate feelings, attitudes, and other emotions which would land them in big trouble if they carried out the same actions in the real world. Sublimation is fine if the individual has a mature understanding and control of his emotions.

The problem zone is the immature person who is using the game to reinforce psychophatic tendencies. I call your attention to the two psychopaths of the "Columbine High School" incident. While they were not gamers, they started living in a constructed world rather than the "real world."

It is simply not appropriate to shrug-off anti-social behaviors available to players in games with the escape, "It's just a game." The developers and publishers have a social responsiblility to insure that horrible actions by the player are appropriately punished in the course of gameplay. The fantasy world of many games with non-human NPCs is a somewhat different debate.
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(28-06-2011, 07:10 PM)CoconutKid Wrote: The developers and publishers have a social responsiblility to insure that horrible actions by the player are appropriately punished in the course of gameplay.

Yet, who defines what a "horrible action" is and what the desired actions by the player are?

If you ask me as a publisher, we are merely providing a sandbox for the player to play in. Are actual sandbox-makers obliged to punish children for destroying sandcastles?
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(28-06-2011, 07:24 PM)Timo Wrote: If you ask me as a publisher, we are merely providing a sandbox for the player to play in. Are actual sandbox-makers obliged to punish children for destroying sandcastles?

Well said!
Viva El Presidente Smile
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(28-06-2011, 05:55 PM)Mzrokks Wrote:
(20-05-2011, 04:41 PM)Feeblezak Wrote: Religious, first thing i do on sandbox is order the deaths of every religious supporter and ban the faction. Im not wasting money on pointless things like churches.

My dear comrade, that's no way to do things!
Tropico is not meant to reflect your real-life beliefs...
If it did then a lot of Tropico 3 players would be messed up psychopaths who stick pictures of Pol Pot on their bedroom wall...

i've never done anything in Tropico base don efficency or pleasing religious people, i just like creating a totalitarian stalinist dictatorship. Incidentally im not a Stalinist.
Political Views

Communism (+++)
Militarism (+++)
Intellectual (++)
Loyalists (++)
Enviromentalists (+)
Capitalists (---)
Religious (---)
Nationalists (--)
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Quote:While they were not gamers, they started living in a constructed world rather than the "real world."
CoconutKid, it's always so easy to look at one instance and blame that particular instance at being the cause when it comes to complex problems, because people do not like to face complexity. They want easy answers with easy solutions. Saying "video gaming allows for escapism!" is such an easy answer.

However, that's not how real life works. You have to look at the social environment people live in. The reason why children such as those who were involved in the Columbine High School incident acted like they did was because they were horribly bullied at school and thus incredibly unhappy with their life situation. That they committed suicide after the event more or emphasizes this. Ultimately here escapism was not at fault, rather a symptom of a larger social problem, in this case, bullying at school. Just because A leads to B and B leads to C does not mean that B is the same thing as A, which is what you are actually saying. The real underlying cause for such tragic events as the Columbine High School massacre are societal problems society itself rarely wants to face, such as bullying, which in turn may lead to people trying to find solace in escapism, and who are you to blame them for doing so?

Last but not least, we are always responsible for our own actions. It was not the video game developer who made person X decide that acting like a Tropico 3 dictator in real life was a good thing, you did. You are going down the same road with your argument as the moral panickers who want to shut down every cultural expression there is that may seem "inappropriate", when in fact these "inappropriate" expressions are themselves signs of the so called moral degragation of society.
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(28-06-2011, 07:24 PM)Timo Wrote: ... Are actual sandbox-makers obliged to punish children for destroying sandcastles?

Of course not, if they are in the box and are actually made of sand. Childish minds are not always so orderly as to comply with the box maker's intent of keeping play in the box.

The box maker has a responsibility to keep the sand in the box and to keep the cats out.


(29-06-2011, 01:47 AM)LeaT Wrote: CoconutKid, it's always so easy to look at one instance and blame that particular instance at being the cause when it comes to complex problems, ... However, that's not how real life works. ...

I think I made a generality and used a specific case as an illustration. I was extremely brief as befits this medium. Perhaps I did it poorly. I was not basing my comment solely on the Columbine case. Yes, the two killers were bullied along with dozens of other students. The athletic department and school management were reprehensible - but never brought to justice for their part. But the killers chose an anti-social reaction based on a distorted world view. Other victims of the bullies did not make that choice.

Do the makers of virtual sandboxes contribute to anti-socal behaviors by some of the players using them? Who knows? But then, who knows the mental stability of those attracted to certain kinds of the virtual sand that some of them contain?
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Either the Communists or the Religious faction.

For the commies, even as a capitalist myself, I have to say that their demands are actually not that unreasonable (healthcare, housing, food, employment, etc), and that my mid game you should already have them on your side if you are doing things correctly. However, they can be an issue early game when I am still low on cash and need to focus my resources in developing the industry instead of improving the standard of living. But they just keep on complaining about not having enough housing and lack of healthcare. Making the USSR dislike me and people becoming rebels. Seriously guys, I know that times are tough and life suck. But getting people to become rebels and blow up factories is not going to help and will only make things worst. Please try to understand that we are very poor at the moment, I promise that as soon as I get some money I will build everyone apartments and condos, OK?

For the religious faction, what can I say? Those guys belong in the dark ages. Demanding things like book burning and inquisition? Getting upset at people having too much entertainment? What world are they living in? I don't mind it too much if they want lots of churches and cathedrals, but I am not going to randomly violate the rights of my citizens just to satisfy these holier than thou moral guardians.
Political views:
Capitalists (+++)
Intellectuals (+++)
Militarists (+)
Environmentalists (-)
Nationalists (--)
Loyalists (--)
Communists (---)
Religious (---)


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As CK suggested before I don't like religious faction because they are hypocrites and old fashioned.

I now shoot every priest I catch visiting a nightclub.
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(07-05-2011, 06:10 PM)Che Guevara Wrote: Vote for the faction you find most annoying here.

I find nationalists most annoying because they complain when I hire foreign workers and when I have good relations with superpowers. Not to mention eternal flame work mode...

Environmentalists.

And after voting for them I see I'm not the only one, since they come (at the time of posting this) second in the poll with %24, just after the Religious.

That is the toughest faction to appease for my way of playing. It seems the only way Environmentalists would be %100 happy is if I don't play at all, don't build anything and the island is barren.

With Religious, you can build and improve, but you can't really have fun after all that hard work of winning elections, suppressing uprisings, repelling rebel attacks, surviving coup attempts... Smile
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There is also another thing about the religious faction that really bugs me. From a gameplay perspective, the minor demands of most of the other factions are not that unreasonable and can be easily satisfied. And they will not mind it that much if one or two of their demands are not met.

When it comes to the religious faction and their demands, they usually either will result in me offending another faction, or meaninglessly scarfing the productivity of my island. For example, one of their demands is for a 'pious society' (the religion happiness is higher then the entertainment happiness). The only way to do so is to either spend lots of money and my limited educated workforce to build lots of additional churches and cathedrals, or to deliberately the entertainment happiness (which will upset the capitalist).

And lets not forget the edicts that they demand. The edicts that they want to see enforce include prohibition (forcing me to close down my money printing run distillery), Inquisition (lowering liberty, making the intellectuals upset and lowering my tourist rating, plus increasing the chance of citizens becoming rebels), and contraception ban (again, making the intellectuals upset, and sometime my island just cannot support a larger population anymore.)

At lease for me, that is the reason why I find the religious faction to be the most annoying. My real life political and ideological views just adds to my dislike of them, as they illustrating the worst and darkest aspects that I find in many religious people that I know personally (seeking to use the state and government to enforce their own beliefs on everyone else, dogmatic and refusing to change, and thinking that the line 'My opinion as a Christian is.....' is a 'say-whatever-bigoted-views-I-have-and-get-away-with-it' card).
Political views:
Capitalists (+++)
Intellectuals (+++)
Militarists (+)
Environmentalists (-)
Nationalists (--)
Loyalists (--)
Communists (---)
Religious (---)


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@Chankljp: They are the "Religious" faction, not necessarily the "Christian" faction. You seem to be forgetting that there are many religions in the world, and none of them are alike! Sure the building architecture looks Christian, and being set in the Caribbean in the Cold War time period they probably are mostly Christian. But Tropico 3 makes no actual distinction between different religions on the island, so really the people could be anything. Clearly you hate Christians, but what about everybody else? Are all religious people bad because you personally don't like the views of certain ones? I will leave you with a quote from Prince Siddhartha, also known as the Buddha. "Pay no attention to the faults of others, things done or left undone by others. Consider only what by oneself is done or left undone."

Regarding the poll: I'm going with Environmentalist faction as the worst because they really are a pain to deal with. If I don't have a ton of garbage dumps cluttering up the island and anti pollution edicts enacted they just go nuts, and that stuff is expensive. Although I have realized that if your industry is largely agriculturally based they're not so bad to deal with. Coffee and Tobacco exports aren't much of an issue for them. And I haven't noticed them complaining about my cigar factories. Which is funny really, seeing as how much smoking can "pollute" the air. Rolleyes
"The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife."
~Theodore Roosevelt
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(06-08-2011, 03:51 AM)Tyroq Wrote: @Chankljp: They are the "Religious" faction, not necessarily the "Christian" faction. You seem to be forgetting that there are many religions in the world, and none of them are alike! Sure the building architecture looks Christian, and being set in the Caribbean in the Cold War time period they probably are mostly Christian. But Tropico 3 makes no actual distinction between different religions on the island, so really the people could be anything. Clearly you hate Christians, but what about everybody else? Are all religious people bad because you personally don't like the views of certain ones? I will leave you with a quote from Prince Siddhartha, also known as the Buddha. "Pay no attention to the faults of others, things done or left undone by others. Consider only what by oneself is done or left undone."

Regarding the poll: I'm going with Environmentalist faction as the worst because they really are a pain to deal with. If I don't have a ton of garbage dumps cluttering up the island and anti pollution edicts enacted they just go nuts, and that stuff is expensive. Although I have realized that if your industry is largely agriculturally based they're not so bad to deal with. Coffee and Tobacco exports aren't much of an issue for them. And I haven't noticed them complaining about my cigar factories. Which is funny really, seeing as how much smoking can "pollute" the air. Rolleyes

I really don't understand how can someone honestly make the argument that the religious faction in the game is not suppose to represent the Catholic church, or at lease right wing Christians.

Tropico is set in a Spanish-speaking Latin America country, in which the Catholic Church historically dominates in real life. Also, you gain extra respects from the religious faction by having a background as a 'Biblical Scholar', you build Cathedrals staffed with Bishops (a position that only exist within the Christian clergy), they want you to build the 'Christ the Savior' Statue, and you gain extra respect from them by getting the Pope to visit your island. And you are still actually trying to say that the religious faction are not represent the Catholic church, or at lease a right wing Christian political movement within your country? Is it like say that the USSR and the US in the game is not really the Soviet Union and the United States, but instead some fictional country; or that the communist and the capitalist are not really the representation of their real life counterparts, despite all their similarities.

And since you make the outrageous statement that I 'Clearly hate Christians', I feel that I have to clear this up for the record.

For one thing, I don't hate all Christians. If you actually read what I wrote, I was carefully used the word 'some' when I was talking about some of the things that I dislike about 'some' religious people in real life, namely those holier than thou moral guardians that seek to use their faith as an excuse to violate and intervene in people's basic rights and personal freedoms, or those that get all 'offended' and 'hurt' at the slightest criticism directed towards any (not matter how insignificant) aspects of their beliefs. I have no interest in what people personally believe, even if I disagree with them or find their views to be objectionable, given that they don't interfere with my own.

The point I made about the religious faction is about how they were represented in the game. In case you haven't noticed, Tropico 3 is a political satire, meaning that ALL the political factions are deliberate examples cynically illustrating the worst aspects of their particular ideology. To quote TVtrope.org:

'The religious faction is full of puritanical Moral Guardians, the capitalists are greedy plutocrats, the communists want you to keep everyone equal regardless of skill or effort, the militarists are club-wielding Black Shirts, the nationalists are xenophobic shut-ins, the environmentalists are so knee-jerk hateful of industries such as logging that they would rather have people unemployed than working at a mill, the intellectuals are prone to get offended at anything done to appeal to the uneducated, and the loyalists are universally depicted as a bunch of boot-licking simpletons who measures a strong leader on how much he abuses his privileges'

Does that mean ALL people in military are oppressive fascists or that ALL environmentalist but preserving nature as a higher priority then human well-being and development? Of course not.

In your post you mentioned that you dislike the environmentalist in the game. Does that mean you hate ALL the people that identified themselves as environmentalist in REAL LIFE? I don’t think so. And do you think that EVERYONE that voted the religious faction as the most annoying faction in this post 'clearly hate Christians'? I will not even dignify that with an answer.

Therefore, if someone talks about how they dislike a faction in the GAME, it does not mean that they hate all people in REAL LIFE that identified themselves as members of that particular ideology, unless they really do exhibit the things that were shown to be bad in the game.

This will be my only respond to the accusation that you made against me and I don’t wish to waste time of this ridiculous issue again.
Political views:
Capitalists (+++)
Intellectuals (+++)
Militarists (+)
Environmentalists (-)
Nationalists (--)
Loyalists (--)
Communists (---)
Religious (---)


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(07-08-2011, 05:04 AM)chankljp Wrote: ... To quote TVtrope.org: ...

Opps! Small typo - there's an "s" in there -- http://tvtropes.org/

The whole link to the Tropico commentary is:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tropico

Your quote is a snip from the paragraph headed, Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism and really might include "all of the factions are completely cynical examples illustrating the worst of their particular group as a whole"

I really shouldn't bother to point out the typo, but it might keep someone from finding the whole article. I think it is a really excellent critique of the game, and well worth reading.



Not to lecture anyone, but those who wish to make serious suggestions about expanding or polishing games might do well to become familiar with the concept of "TROPES" and the classes of them already described at the linked site.
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Wow chankljp, you really got all worked up over that. It seems you have much deeper feelings about the issue than you're willing to admit. Seems like an aweful lot of effort you put into that response for someone who "doesn't want to waste time in this ridiculous issue." I'm a moderate, and equally accepting of just about everybody, which is what prompted me to respond to you in the first place. You seem to have some extremely vocal opinions about people that suggest you don't value their beliefs or consider them tolerable. You stressed that preferences in the GAME don't necessarily reflect real life ideals, and I would agree with you completely, except you also said this: "My real life political and ideological views just adds to my dislike of them, as they illustrating the worst and darkest aspects that I find in many religious people that I know personally..." so you sorta indicted yourself as being inconsistent. Also, I didn't make the argument that the religious faction isn't supposed to be the church. In fact, if you'd actually read what I said at all you'd see where I wrote: "Being set in the Caribbean in the Cold War time period they probably are mostly Christian." My point was that you were seriously overreacting to the actions of one particular religious group and seeming to respond to it without real thought of the rest.

Anyway, I'm not here to judge you or anyone else. But it always bothers me how people, like yourself in this situation, get so bent out of shape over people with different ideas than their own. You don't like how judgemental they are, but you yourself are extremely judgemental of them. Do you not see what that looks like to other people who read what you wrote? You seem awfully emotionally driven over something so trivial.
"The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife."
~Theodore Roosevelt
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(09-08-2011, 02:36 AM)Tyroq Wrote: Wow chankljp, you really got all worked up over that. It seems you have much deeper feelings about the issue than you're willing to admit. Seems like an aweful lot of effort you put into that response for someone who "doesn't want to waste time in this ridiculous issue." I'm a moderate, and equally accepting of just about everybody, which is what prompted me to respond to you in the first place. You seem to have some extremely vocal opinions about people that suggest you don't value their beliefs or consider them tolerable. You stressed that preferences in the GAME don't necessarily reflect real life ideals, and I would agree with you completely, except you also said this: "My real life political and ideological views just adds to my dislike of them, as they illustrating the worst and darkest aspects that I find in many religious people that I know personally..." so you sorta indicted yourself as being inconsistent. Also, I didn't make the argument that the religious faction isn't supposed to be the church. In fact, if you'd actually read what I said at all you'd see where I wrote: "Being set in the Caribbean in the Cold War time period they probably are mostly Christian." My point was that you were seriously overreacting to the actions of one particular religious group and seeming to respond to it without real thought of the rest.

Anyway, I'm not here to judge you or anyone else. But it always bothers me how people, like yourself in this situation, get so bent out of shape over people with different ideas than their own. You don't like how judgemental they are, but you yourself are extremely judgemental of them. Do you not see what that looks like to other people who read what you wrote? You seem awfully emotionally driven over something so trivial.

You know what? I originally said that I will leave this issue behind. But after reading what you wrote, I just have to reply.

I see that you are trying to be all empathic play a Wannabe psychologist/counselor and diagnoses me as ‘having deeper feelings about the issue than I am willing to admit’ since I put ‘an awful lot of effort’ into responding to your insulting accusations. Seriously, if you are going to attack someone and accuse him as a bigot that hates 33% of the world's population, it is only natural that he respond back in force. What was I suppose to do instead? Just sit here and let your insulting comment go unanswered? What is the matter? Not used to the enemy shooting back?

You then ended the reply with a painfully pretentious line about how you are ‘not here to judge’. Here is a suggestion, if you are going to attack someone and spend two entire post making judgmental comments about him ('...but you yourself are extremely judgemental of them'), at lease have the decency of being honest. When you criticize someone, you are judging their character, just like how I am judging you (and the real life religious people that I wrote about) right now.

I wrote that I found the religious faction in the game to be the most annoying because they 'illustrating the worst and darkest aspects I find in many religious people that I know personally'. When I talked about the worst aspects, I was talking about how some of them demand that the faith be given special treatment and ban criticism against it, how some of them seek to oppose the separation of church and state, how some are interfering people's personal lives and freedom by imposing things such as contraction ban or the banning of certain works that they disapprove of, how some are seeking to hold back the progress of humanity by opposing scientific advancements and education that contradict their faith.

Now, does all Christians represent or support those things? No. Therefore, by being against those darkest aspects, how can I 'clearly hate Christians'? (Unless you are suggesting that Christians DO in fact support those views).

And my issue with SOME religious people is not on how judgmental they are. Frankly, I don't care that much about their personal opinions. But I do care when they (SOME religious people in real life and the religious faction in the game) seek to use the power of the state and government to impose their faith on everyone else. e.g. I don't care if people are bring judgmental and think that I am ugly, but I do have an issue if they are going to get the police to arrest me and force me to do facial surgery.

But you are right about one thing. I do have 'extremely vocal opinions' about these issues and that I 'don't value their beliefs or consider them tolerable'. I oppose to religious extremism just as I oppose to racism and totalitarianian fascism. Are you honestly suggesting that society as a whole should NOT be judgmental toward racist or religious extremist that seek to impose their faith on everyone? Open-mindedness is a virtue that should be encouraged, but you are clearly taking it to a level in which your brains are at risk of falling out.

It is very rare that I give out negative or even neutral reputations, but in this case, I will make an exception.
Political views:
Capitalists (+++)
Intellectuals (+++)
Militarists (+)
Environmentalists (-)
Nationalists (--)
Loyalists (--)
Communists (---)
Religious (---)


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Timo please close this thread. It looks like battlefield Sad
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Hardly a battlefield. It's just me as a sensible moderate expressing a concern over an issue of apparent prejudice and chankljp as an immature bigot going off the deep end over it. He even had the wonderful notion to downrep me because I have a different view than he does. That right there ought to show who's the real aggressor here. Chankljp, I never give out negative rep either, but for you I will return the favor. It's only fair.
"The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife."
~Theodore Roosevelt
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Man this forum used to be a friendly place.
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